Now that I’ve lived in France for three years, I have some interesting observations about the HUGE differences between France and America. Most of these differences I would not have expected before coming, when I was seeing things as a tourist or outsider. I have actually been surprised by them. I won’t address the obvious things like cuisine, medical systems, or the cafe culture, etc. Everyone knows those. I’ll write about the ones you may not be aware of as an outsider. Please keep in mind that this is being written in 2010 and I’m sure my views will evolve over time.
Please take these with a grain of salt – they are generalizations based on my observations, experiences and conversations with French people (like my husband and his family and my French friends). I recognize that a lot of what I write will be controversial and may be even offensive to both the French and Americans, but since it’s my opinion and my blog, I’m writing it and you can take or leave it, as you like.
1. A word you’ll hear constantly in France is ‘solidarity.’ It basically means banning together to help each other fight for what they want both as individuals and as a group. That the collective is more important and more powerful than the individual. In contrast, in America it is the individual who matters and how that individual can effect changes. The French believe that you must act as a group and fight for what you want as a collective. To better the world requires group action. Americans on the other hand have a strong sense of the power of the individual. We believe that an individual can make a huge difference in the world – be a hero, discover a cure, build a fortune, better a community, or change the world. We believe strongly that what we do as individuals matters immensely. If we want to change something, then we sue as individuals instead of act as groups. We also have a deeply engrained sense of sacrifice – sacrifice for your family, for you community, for your country. And we have a deep belief in personal responsibility and that our individual actions really matter. In my limited experience, I have not seen a lot of evidence of these same beliefs in France – for the French it is the collective action that ultimately makes a difference.
2. Being an entrepreneur is the ‘highest calling’ in the U.S. – something many people aspire to. Being an entrepreneur in France is what you do if you are desperate and cannot get a ‘real job.’ It’s what pathetic people do (which makes me very pathetic). This is changing some now with the introduction of the auto-entrepreneur business status. Interestingly enough, being a bureaucrat is what a high percentage of the youth aspire to.
3. Americans value innovation, newness, creativity, ‘thinking outside the box.’ Standing out from the crowd is highly valued. In France, conformity to societal norms and centuries old traditions are what’s valued. Believing the same thing and standing up for the same things are the goal. A perfect example is that in the U.S. you don’t have to speak a word of English to get your Green Card and you can take your drivers license test in LA in probably 100 languages. In France, you can’t get your long-term Carte de Sejour without speaking adequate French and attending an ‘integration into French society’ all day class. The French can be chauvinistic about their culture. If you move to France, you’re expected to act French, live French, think French, dress French, speak French, integrate in France, and follow the ‘French culture’ rules. Breaking the rules is not well tolerated.
4. American English is always changing – we add, delete, create new words all the time. English is a fusion language – throw in as many creative and new words as possible and we’re fine with that. Our culture is not tied to our language. In contrast, the French language cannot be separated from the French culture. In fact, it is the cornerstone of the French culture. They hold onto it like a beacon in a storm. It is why many French have little tolerance for people who don’t speak their language well, particularly if you live in their country (so if you have a hearing disability like me, you’re screwed).
5. Americans see government as a necessary evil. The less, the better. They don’t want government in their lives or telling them what to do. In France, government is seen as the 
caretaker, maybe even the big brother or papa. Government cradles them through life and, for the most part, does a damn good job of it. If government gets out of line as the French see it, they demonstrate, strike and fight to get government back in line, doing what they want it to do. The level of involvement and authority the government has in the average French person’s life would not be tolerated by Americans. Socialism, for most Americans, is a dirty word and even placed in the same category as Communism, which shows our ignorance since the two do not share much in common.
6. The French vote – 85% of them vote! And the French fight for what they want with strikes and demonstrations. The Americans don’t vote – only about 55% of them vote, even for Presidential elections. Not since the 1960′s to the early 1980′s (my generation) have the Americans fought for change and a better country. We have become remarkably apathetic and willing to take whatever crap is dished out. While I do get irritated with the amount of demonstrating the French do, I do admire it to some degree and wish Americans did more of it.
7. Americans, for the most part, take personal responsibility for their failures, sometimes to the extreme. They will blame themselves if their business or career fails or if anything goes wrong – “I made bad choices’, ‘I should have done this or that,’ ‘I should have cut costs,’ ‘I should have chosen the other job, ‘ ‘it must be my fault if I got laid off with a 1000 other people’ etc. The French blame everyone and everything else for what goes wrong. I’ve yet to hear a French person apologize for anything, even when it was blatantly clear it was their fault.
8. Customer service is valued in the U.S. and it is a goal of every business. Customer service is almost nonexistent in France.
9. The French think they have it much worse than they do, and the Americans think they have it much better than they do. The French like to complain and criticize everything. It’s kinda the national pass time (this is an observation coming from my French friends, by the way). Americans continue to think they have the best society, the best economy, the best standard of living, the best medical system in the world, even if the objective evidence does not support that belief. We believe it because it’s what’s been fed to us since childhood. And because of that belief, we are unwilling to change our system, such as health care, to better our country and to support our middle class. The French think they don’t have as much as they should have in the way of support from the government or their employers, when in reality they probably have one of the best systems and benefits of any country in the world.
10. The French will sue as a last resort, the Americans will sue as a first resort.
11. Americans are open, friendly, warm, kind, extroverted and fairly tolerant of foreigners and immigrants (unless you’re a Mexican in Arizona, a mentality which seems to be spreading across America now). In the first 10 minutes of a conversation with an American, you can hear her/his entire life story, complete with photos from his/her wallet (an experience my husband actually had and was astonished by it). The French (depending on the region) can be closed, reserved, a little suspicious, cold and sometimes confrontational. It can take years before you’ll hear their life story.
12. The laws and tax codes governing France are geared to support the middle class and to level the field. The laws and tax codes governing America are geared to support the upper middle class, corporations, and the wealthy. America has become a ‘survival of the fittest’ society, in my observation. The negative side to this in France is that it is extremely difficult and expensive to start a business (especially one with employees given how high your payroll taxes will be).
13. Americans will buy a million low quality things at good prices that may or may not hold up for them over time. The French will buy a few high quality things (supposingly high quality anyway – I’ve had the same experience with things in America and in France both being poor quality but I paid a lot more in France). The point however is that France is not a consumerism society like America. A good example is that all stores are closed on Sundays even though it is an inconvenience for people who work and could be a very ‘high profit’ day for businesses, but the government has laws prohibiting being open on Sundays for most businesses. Sundays are the day to be with family.
14. Everything is written down in the U.S. – policies, laws, tax codes, immigration procedures, etc, etc and it’s all checked out by lawyers. When you go to a government office in France, 
you will get the absolute minimum instructions in written form and then be at the mercy of the person you are dealing with at that moment. And if you come back later and there’s a different person, you will then have to abide by that person’s interpretation of the ‘law’. Even if you bring in the exact documents that are on the written list, someone sitting behind a desk somewhere can decide arbitrarily that you must bring in other documents or jump through additional hoops. We have experienced this many times and even my French husband is fed up. The American governmental bureaucracy is no picnic but it makes the French bureaucracy look like a fun fest.
15. It’s fairly easy to get fired from a job in the U.S. if you have the appropriate documentation showing incompetence. It is virtually impossible to get fired in France, especially if you have any kind of tenure, no matter how incompetent you are. I know of several examples of this personally.
16. France is still behind the U.S. when it comes to women’s rights, protections, and opportunities. It’s still very hard for women to get to the top in France and, if you turn on the TV, you’ll see few women or Arabs or blacks hosting a documentary, emceeing a show, being interviewed as a CEO or a high government official. There is progress being made but not at the same level as in the U.S. I actually think there is less progress being made for the North Africans than for women when it comes to these issues. Laws in France don’t seem to support unmarried or divorced women either. For instance, if you’re unmarried in France you will pay income taxes 3 to 5 times higher than if you were married or married with children. Also, if you were married for 20 years raising the kids but finally left your husband because he was emotionally abusive, you would be in big trouble financially. The laws are such that the children, if they are over 21, could get a significant percentage of ownership of the house, and since you hadn’t worked for 20 years or paid into social security, you would have to work 30 years to get your full retirement benefit. For instance, if you start work at 45, you’ll be working until 75 to get full benefits. And if you’re the second wife and you married late in life and your husband dies, the first wife would get most of the social security retirement benefits – benefits are prorated based on the number of years married to the husband, and the adult children would get 75% of the house. Note: this is how I understand it based on conversations with my husband and research I’ve done on the internet. If you know the laws better than me, please comment and correct anything I have wrong.
17. Americans have a lot of hang-ups about sex and body image. For many Americans, nudity is either shameful or sexual. The French have no hang ups about sex or their 
bodies. They accept their bodies as they are, have no problem or shame associated with nudity, and are less superficial about their looks. No one expects you to have a perfect body in France like the American obsession with perfection pertaining to looks. There are no long aisles of diet food in the supermarkets in France and people don’t eat processed foods nearly as much as in the U.S. In France, sex is part of life and there’s no guilt associated with it. Once you take the ‘naughtiness’ out of sex, it loses it’s ‘rebellion value’. Then people make love as part of a relationship rather than trying to prove their manhood, or as a domination or conquest tool, or as a form of rebellion against society (which often happens in America). The French are also much less modest than Americans. This can be seen in the OB/GYN exam where you are expected to undress in front of your doctor, have your exam completely nude with no gowns or blankets over you. It can also be seen in the fact that it is common for restaurant, bar and other public places to have unisex bathrooms. Additionally, men’s urinals are usually not in stalls and they even have them out in plain sight at the concerts (see the photo for an example).
18. When the French talk about separation of church and state, they actually mean it. When Americans talk about it, they don’t mean it. Religious overtones and Puritan politics permeate and influence huge aspects of America’s political discussions and decisions. The Tea Party and the Republican’s constant wooing of the Religious Right for their votes are perfect examples. The French and most of Europe do not have the religious (and primarily Christian) conservative movement that is very present in American culture. The extreme right wing evangelical movement does not exist in France. And the French actually vote on the issues – there is no discussion about the candidate’s lifestyle, sexual orientation, marriage status, morality, whether s/he ever had an affair, or which candidate you’d most like to have a beer with! What a refreshing concept – voting on the issues alone!
19. The Americans are workaholics and the French are not. The French get 5-6 weeks of vacation a year and Americans get 2-3 weeks. Americans work much longer hours than the French (in general), and spend less time with their families. Americans are always busy doing something – taking the kids to soccer, shopping, working, classes, attending something, too busy for family or friends – and the French make time to do nothing. The Italians do the same and call it ‘il dolce far niente’, the sweetness of doing nothing.
20. Americans know business and how to run them. Compared to French businesses, American businesses are run brilliantly – efficient, decent customer service, stream-lined, cost effective, well-managed, staff well-trained and well-paid, and profitable. I definitely could not describe my experiences with French businesses this way. In fact, I’m astonished that many businesses can stay open at all given my experiences with them. Americans also know internet technology and the French don’t. Take a look at a few French designed websites and you’ll know what I mean – chaos rules, broken links, terrible navigation!
21. The French do not put their futures and their hopes in the stock market and they do not use credit like Americans. The French are suspicious of Wall Street and would not trust their retirement to it. They also live within their means, put away savings, and don’t use credit cards much. Their investments are their homes or second homes. Americans put blind faith in Wall Street and every financial adviser will tell you to put your money in stocks, bonds, IRAs. The French have little tolerance for this level of risk or faith in someone else’s expertise so they rarely do it.
22. The French pay fairly high income taxes when you combine it with the social security charges. The combination can range from 25% to 45%, in general. Americans, depending on their deductions can pay between 8% to 45%, which includes social security. Given these numbers, you would think that the French pay way too high of taxes, however the French actually get something for their taxes: excellent virtually free health care, fairly livable retirement income, and free education, including at university level, for their children. Americans get a tiny retirement income, no university education for their children, and no medical care for their taxes. France however does have a lot of extra taxes that are not income based. It’s why buying things in France is so much more expensive. There are also local taxes and taxes if you own a TV, and extra taxes if you’re a business owner, etc.
23. There are far more opportunities professionally in the U.S. than in France. If you want to start a business, 
be an entrepreneur, make a great salary, get rich, have many investment opportunities, have a variety of careers, or have an exciting profession, stay in America! Most French choose one profession and one company and stay within those parameters most of their lives until they retire. They may be promoted within the company or move to another company similar to where they worked, but there isn’t much room or opportunities to make major jumps or transitions to other careers, or to morph your experience into a consulting business. Additionally, education is considered more important than experience. Apply for a job selling bread and they’ll want to see your ‘diploma’ (we’re talking high school level) to enable you to sell bread. Even if you have 10 years of experience selling bread, you won’t get the job without the diploma. Same for secretarial work, clerk work, etc. The other reality is, for most jobs, if you’re over 45 years of age, you’ll have a hell of a time getting any kind of decent work. Over 40 or 45 and you’re a ‘has been.’ Over 50? Forget it unless you want to teach English on a contract basis for low pay and no guarantee of work. It’s also much harder to make huge profits with your business here, given the high employee and corporate taxes in France. You’ll get a double wamy if you’re an expat since some jobs, such as working for the government, are only available to French citizens. And it’s especially hard on entrepreneurs here. Every time I talk to a business owner – restaurant owner, my doctors, my hairdresser – they all talk about how impossible it is to make a decent profit or even make ends meet because the government comes up with all kinds of incomprehensible taxes to ensure the owners don’t make too much of a profit. And business owners don’t retire early like people who work for the government such as teachers, train drivers, bureaucrats, so they fiercely criticize the government for making it so hard on them.
24. The French take personal privacy very seriously. They keep shutters on their homes (although some of this is to regulate the temperatures in the home), put sheers on all their windows and keep them closed most of the time so people can’t look into their windows, they don’t talk much about their personal lives outside of their immediate families (and aren’t big communicators about talking about problems with each other, even in the marriage setting), and they don’t care what their politicians do in their private life. They care only about their politicians’ stand on issues and their competence (how refreshing is that!). When someone is arrested, the media does not take photos of them handcuffed and being escorted by police to jail. The French were horrified by the photos released of Strauss-Kahn being arrested which landed on the front of the New York Times. This is not done in France because the presumption of innocence is taken very seriously. The media does not publish the personal lives of their politicians either. Mitterrand, a former French President, had a mistress for years and even a daughter from the affair, and the French didn’t know about it until years after he left politics. There is no big Pavarazzi culture in France. In fact, three of the reporters who took photos of the Princess Diana crash went to trial for ‘invasion of privacy’ violations. You also won’t find the disgusting published Tabloids you will find in the U.S. and Britain.
25. The U.S. has a thriving and large non-profit sector, but this is almost nonexistent in France. Since the French government handles most of what the non-profit sector handles in the U.S., there is really no reason for it in France. My industry, nonprofit fundraising and grant writing, doesn’t even exist in France. France does have ‘associations’ which receive some government support. Associations are small groups of volunteers who offer classes, or feed the hungry, or support the arts, but, in general, have small memberships and no paid staff. Additionally, Americans are probably the most generous people in the world when it comes to charitable giving. It is engrained in our culture – some of it based in the Christian belief of tithing (giving a percentage of your income to charities or religious institutions). The French do not have this tradition and don’t really give much to charities. In general, they also don’t have as much disposable income as Americans in order to give.
Perhaps you’re asking yourself ‘so which culture does she prefer?’ After all, I praised and blasted both cultures. I’ve come to the conclusion that I find good and bad, pros and cons in both cultures and both ways of ‘being.’ Given that both are Western, industrialized and developed countries, I have been astonished at how different they are and how hard the adjustment has been. But as a 53 year old women who moved here at 49, who had a very full and successful life in the U.S., who has not been able to master the French language (and never will with my hearing issue), and was deeply engrained in the American culture of diversity, variety and creativity, I must admit that I am far more comfortable in the American culture than in France. It’s all about familiarity, what you’re used to, how you’ve lived your whole life. You don’t change your colors at age 50. I’ve talked to SO many Americans who feel the same way. Those who moved here in their 20′s have had a much easier time of adjusting and ‘becoming French’ so perhaps that’s the key. And you must be fluent in French to really integrate and be comfortable in France. You cannot isolate yourself in your ethnic community here like you can in the U.S. There is much I miss about my culture and it is one of the main reasons we bought the house in Florida and hope to find a way to live part-time in France and part-time in the U.S. So there you have it.
Which culture do you prefer? Would you be happy living in France? Or would you be content living in the U.S.?
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:15 am
Right on, Cynthia. My comments:
#2: The people I’ve met who have their own businesses don’t strike me as having done it out of desperation (nor have I experienced people looking down on them for that), they’re just exceptions to the majority who find the thought of going into business for themselves incomprehensibly insecure. I was quite shocked the first time I realized that the best brightest here tend to aspire to be beaureaucrats with a nice “planque” (a cushy secure job) rather than entrepreneurs.
#11: Ugh, yes, it’s very difficult to develop deep friendships here. And the more open you are the more they suspect your motives. Seeking out people who have traveled, who are interested in practicing their English, or people involved in the arts helps, but it’s still a very slow process. Younger people seem to be more open as well.
#17: I find this refreshing. Interestingly, I’ve had experiences where new friends will more readily talk to me about their sex lives than reveal much about their life stories as you talk about in #11.
#20: So true. French websites are the worst! And yes, customer service is mostly an unknown concept here, though I’ve had decent experiences with stores like Decathlon and Carrefour and Sarenza (the french equivalent of Zappo’s) online. I wonder if (assuming they can get through all the bureaucratic hurdles) someone with American business knowhow could be successful here by virtue of being able to run a business better. And by successful, I don’t mean rich because that’s almost impossible, but at least financially better off than your average college grad making 2100 euros/month.
Personally, I prefer the U.S. for the openness and opportunities and relative lack of ageism and sexism, but as the mother of a kindergartener, I’m thrilled with the public school system here and the health care system and all the affordable extracurricular opportunities. Plus I speak the language and have my French nationality, which makes things easier. The big negative for me is work because as you pointed out, my work experience and liberal arts degree mean almost nothing here. I’m researching the entrepreneurial route. It’s either that, temping, or trying to pass an English teaching concours, but becoming a French bureaucrat and having to go teach in a slum school up north doesn’t appeal to me much.
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:23 am
Coming from the UK and having lived in France for 8 years I endorse all of that! Re price and quality of goods, they do buy cheap stuff of poor quality – think Mr Outiror, Brico Depot “arrivages” etc and the cheap discount shops like Mario Luzzi and Eurodif. Anything of good quality tends to be overpriced compared to USA and UK (and not just due to exchange rates) but most shops seem to prefer to sell one thing expensively than 10 at what we would consider a fair price. As a result loads of shops are virtually empty of customers until the “soldes” or seasonal sales periods, when everyone seems to do their clothes shopping for the year!
One other difference I’ve noticed is the black market – I know lots of people here who work on the “black” for cash. I didn’t know any in the UK. Either it’s more prevalent here or it’s more open!
Just thought of another one, e-commerce which is relatively underdeveloped here in France. In the UK I could buy anything online – here it’s 10 years behind and the standard of websites is pants.
Phil
June 22nd, 2011 at 2:00 am
Hi, Phil, Thanks for your comment. In the US we have a ‘black market’ mostly with the Latino population, particularly illegals from Mexico. It’s more prominent in the Southern States near the Mexico border like in Texas, Arizona and California. The reality is that without it the economies could collapse since the illegals will work the jobs that most Americans won’t work since they are hard, nasty and low paying. So there are pros and cons to it. Cynthia
June 22nd, 2011 at 2:04 am
Thanks for your comment, Annabel. These are obviously generalizations but I do think, in my experience anyway, there is a lot of truth in them. And yes, there are pros and cons to both cultures. In a perfect world, we would find a way to combine the best of both into our countries and experiences and cultures. Cynthia
June 22nd, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Cynthia, that was an outstanding analysis of the two countries and culutres and your experiences in both as well as your talks with French people and your research. Najeh and I read it and his perception of what you wrote about France is ‘right on’ with the close ties and occuptation of his country, Tunisia by the French. Also he has family and many friends who have emigrated to France and live there. They have found many of the same things that you have found. It sounds as if there are positives and negatives, to be sure, with both America and France. For me, even if I spoke French fluently and was a French citzen, I would find it difficut, at my age or probably any age, to live there. The closedness of the society and the suspiciousness and lack of open friendliness and sharing would make me crazy and would be intolerable. I like blahbing about our lives and sharing ourselves with others and being open, somewhat loud, openly joyous and passionate about my life and how I live it. I do fit in, in Southern Tunisia but the lack of the language and no real way to learn it except immersion and then each family member uses different words for every siutation, make living in California appealing. I say California because the majority of America isn’t appealing to me either – prejudice, not accepting of the multi-cultural atmosphere of Los Angeles and California, the terrible heat, humidity, cold and snow and the conservative politics of most states, unlike California. We are all a product of our upbrnging and enviornment and it takes a unique individual to be able to leave everything and move to a new country, culture, language, way of living, etc. Even with all the challenges you’ve faced Cynthia, you did it and are the ‘richer’ (certainly not financially) for it. Vive France, Viva America but Viva le diference!!!
June 23rd, 2011 at 3:52 am
Cynthia, I am studying abroad in France for the summer. This is my first abroad experience and I have to say I have been pleasantly surprised in many ways in the differences in culture. I too have been blogging about my take on the French culture specifically the day-to-day interactions with people), and your blog was really fascinating for me to read! It’s like an in-depth confirmation of what I’ve already witnessed. One point you made that I had to laugh at because I noticed it within minutes of arriving in France is #11. I was extremely thrown off when my smiles at random people were not returned! Anyways, great blog! I really enjoyed reading this and will refer to it often.
June 23rd, 2011 at 3:53 am
Interesting article.
Let me comment on a few points:
“Americans also know technology and the French don’t.” – What about the France’s TGV and the advanced nuclear technology? The US have a totally underdeveloped train system!
“Americans have a lot of hang-ups about sex and body image.” What about the body image of the many obese people in the US? And what about the US porn industry, the biggest in the world? What does that tell us about women’s rights in the US?
“Americans are open, friendly, warm, kind, extroverted and fairly tolerant of foreigners.” Really? After 9/11, that has changed a lot. If a foreigner arrives at an US airport, he is treated now like a criminal.
“The French do not put their futures and their hopes in the stock market and they do not use credit like Americans.” Maybe the French are more intelligent
“There are far more opportunities professionally in the U.S. than in France.” Yes, and there are far more opportunities to get laid off in the US.
June 23rd, 2011 at 8:34 am
I’m a native New York in my 20′s living in France. I haven’t been here that long; but here are some things that come to mind.
First of all; I already speak Spanish fluently and have been studying French for years. I knew conversational French before coming here which really makes me transition a lot easier and more enjoyable. I am nowhere near fluent; but having at least basic conversational, verb conjugating and vocabulary skills helps in any country that doesn’t speak your native tongue. If you don’t have a love & passion for the language, find a way to have it (perhaps through cinema, music, romantic relationship…). You are right- it is must easier to adjust if you’re in your 20′s that in your 50′s.
Second. It depends on your personality, taste & where in France you are. I am someone who loves to hang out and smell the roses. Doing nothing is something I like. I am also an artist and spend a lot of time observing and reflecting (‘doing nothing’) and that sort of calm is very important for me. So, yeah, being in France is good for that. Also, I’m a nature lover. Moving from NYC to a smaller city surrounded my mountains/nature like Grenoble has been good for my spirit. If I was in Paris or Marseille I may not feel the same way. Also, I love food. I could get into that more in depth but, yes, I’m in a city (and country) that’s great for food and drink.
3rd: family & friends. In New York I had no time. Here I do. I am more social; I have time to see people; my commute is walking 5 or 15 minutes somewhere. In NY I have in the subway for at least 2 hours a day. Another plus for where I am in France.
What I worry about here is my professional life. Everything else seems great, I have time to make my art, to make friendships.. but will I ever sell my work here? Will I be able to work? Will I ever have a career? I don’t know. Will see. But, I was losing my mind in NY and for now this feels right.
June 23rd, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Hi, Dana, yes, it really depends on where you are in life, what your needs and passions are, and what your goals are. France will work or not work based on those things. Since I have to make a decent living given my living expenses, I find that I work far more hours here than I ever did in Los Angeles. In fact, I typically work 10 hour days 5-6 days a week in an effort to make a living, and yet, I’m making about 20% of what I made in the U.S. with my consulting business. I know that this is true for many of my American friends who moved here too – they are finding it much harder to make a decent living here than in the U.S. Additionally, there is a lot of ageism here so for those of us who are over 40, we have a lot working against us in terms of getting hired at a decent job. So again, France will be a very different experience depending on where you are in life and what your needs are.
June 23rd, 2011 at 12:06 pm
Thanks, Angela. I’m really glad the blog post has been useful to you in getting oriented to your new French experience. As a student, you will have mostly great experiences in France, I think. As my French husband and I say to each other regularly: ‘it’s not about right or wrong, it’s just DIFFERENT.’ Enjoy your summer. Cynthia
June 23rd, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Hi. Enjoyed the thoughts. I’m a Yank living permanently in the UK so don’t live in France. I have French friends through hosting French students when I lived in the USA and that was a lovely way to make permanent lovely friends….. and I try to visit them as much as possible. I don’t speak French fluently so it would be difficult to assimilate in France for me just due to the language…..
I would prefer living in the UK permanently; I am finding the USA a crazy place (I visit twice a year) and certainly not very compassionate since the National Health System here in the UK has served me very well for 11 years……
Viva la differences though……
Patty
Surrey
England
June 23rd, 2011 at 1:25 pm
Hi, Patty, yes, I agree that the lack of health care in the U.S. is inhumane and unforgivable. And there certainly is a lot of diversity in the U.S. which can make people feel crazy sometimes. The pace of life can also be insane. Los Angeles (and living there 28 years) was a perfect example, however now I find myself missing the energy, diversity, vibrance, and entertainment options of a big city. Cynthia
June 23rd, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Great analysis, Linda. Since we’re both from Los Angeles, we share the same experiences there. I agree that California is special in its progressiveness and diversity and the welcoming of all people from all cultures and countries. You don’t always find that elsewhere in the U.S. I too miss the loudness, friendliness, passion and openness of American culture. Cynthia
June 23rd, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Excellent post Cyn! As an American living in France (and Switzerland) for the last 11 years I find myself just wanting to say “Amen Sister” to many of the points you’ve raised. I especially agreed with your highlighted #9.
Point #4 was interesting. The Swiss are much more willing to ‘adopt’ English words into their French, with no compunction whatsoever in doing so. France French does it too, but they feel guilty over it. The Swiss governmental system could be more closely compared to the American system than the French one. Does that have something to do with the languages adaptability (plus there are 4 national languages in Switzerland)? Humm…perhaps a French speaking Canadian could weigh in on that one.
And about French friendliness/openness or lack thereof #11 – yes, they are less open (in general) and yes, it does take longer to get to know people here. But, they’ve worn off on me. I go back to the States now, or am around a large group of Americans and inside of an hour I am SO sick of having a smile pasted on my face having to make polite small talk to people I do not know.
I think you hit the nail on the head with saying it’s a question of differences, not better/worse. I think that a problem we Americans (again, in general) have is that yes, we are a tad brainwashed thinking we’re the best and we don’t travel anywhere else to prove us wrong (the vast majority of Americans not having passports). Then, when we do actually ‘get out’, we expect everyone to act just like ‘us’ and when they don’t, then we think there’s something ‘wrong’ with them, rather than realizing what’s wrong in that particular instance is US, for here WE are the foreigners, our way is the strange one.
I miss things about the States, a lot of things, but I like a lot of things here too that I know I’d miss in the States. Phfff…I prefer…BOTH.
June 24th, 2011 at 5:54 am
Hi, there, thanks for stopping by and commenting. Your observations point out that generalizations are not always accurate – it really depends on an individual’s circumstances. For instance, the #11 point: while we do a lot of chit chat in the US, we usually do eventually get down to more intimate conversations and openness about our lives (and fairly quickly, if we feel a connection or ‘chemistry). In France, I find the people I know (and my husband’s friends) never get beyond the superficial chit chat. People’s marriages can be falling apart but they won’t even talk to their best friends about it. And on the differences issue – I find my husband is far more likely than me to insist the French way is right. I’m the one always having to point out there is no right or wrong – just different. I know other Americans who have the same experience with their French families. So again, it really is what our own personal experiences are and we can’t really generalize that much. My post was an attempt to explain some common themes and experiences in France and America but there will always be exceptions to the rule.
It was great hanging out with you in Geneva. What a great city with great opportunities! I can see why you’ve come to love it there. Cyn
June 26th, 2011 at 1:36 am
[...] 25 Major Cultural Differences Between France and America [...]
June 26th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
I just found your blog – is it a blog? And read your cultural differences with interest. I am sure that many of the points you make are valid, but I found that some you make about the US are not (because you don’t see it from a foreigner point of view.) In the US you talk about Los Angeles and California which is almost like a foreign country compared to other states. I live in Georgia. I am French. I have lived here for decades and have hardly any friends. I find that if you don’t belong to a church, are not a Republican, like to talk about culture and books and not sport, it is very hard to make friends here. I just talked to an old French friend who has been living in Iowa for decades also and she complained of the same thing. She said that you cannot make “real” friendships here as in France, that American are very superficial. If you do not agree with the people here, they don’t like that and don’t like you.
About the language. I think that French people speak a lot more English than the US people speak another language. I have been living in GA since the 70s and have still to meet a stranger to speak to me in French. Last month people in Paris thinking I was a tourist (since I was speaking English with my husband) tried willingly to help me, in English. I have never encountered anyone in the US, when I was speaking French with my mother, willing to help us. I found more French people talked to me, in English, in Paris than American people talking to me here once they heard my accent. I also think that the French Canadian are more attached to speaking French than the French in France.
I find the people in Paris a lot more tolerant of foreigners than people here in Georgia. During the Iraq war I had my car keyed, someone tried to drive me off the road and I received many many French bashing emails – I still do by the way. People hear my French accent and often make remarks (not pleasant) about France. I find a lot of people here to be quite rude. I also find that US parents are too controlling of their children and very lax with their studies. They are not interested in helping them learn (I talk about the majority.) Education in the US is way behind France. I also find that if you are not a Christian, but a freethinker, Buddhist, Muslin or Atheist, you don’t have the same freedoms in the US. They would never vote for an Atheist here even if he/she were the most qualified. I also read a couple of articles which states that now a person has more chances to move upward in Europe rather than in the US. One point you did not make and I heard many foreigners mention, that is you won’t hear people talk as much about money in France as in the US. Here money is constantly talked about, for any reason. It may be easy for an American to live in Los Angeles or Paris, but it is not so easy for a Parisian to live in the Midwest or Deep South.
You comment about French people not talking much – I met French people I did not know at the Chicago airport last month, they talked to me and right away told me about their vacation, what they had liked and disliked in the US, where they lived in France, etc. and I have found many times French people talking to me easily. But they would not speak with foreign/American people that openly I believe. (It is known in France (rightly or wrongly) that anglophiles like France but don’t like the French.) I speak fluent Italian and worked with Italians here – they told me about the same things I am mentioning to you – they deplored the lack of culture in the US the most.
June 27th, 2011 at 1:29 am
Fair enough, Vagabonde. I did write the post from a ‘big city’ perspective. It’s been MANY years since I lived in a small town and the South and states like Iowa or Montana or the Dakotas, etc can be very conservative and even backwards in their thinking, especially in the small towns. In fact, perhaps the biggest cultural shock is less France/America and more big city/small town. I live in a small town (not in an international city like Paris or Lyon or Nice) and I find the insular, provincial thinking and behavior hard to take. I had a terrible time of it in a small town in Northern Italy too. I am quite sure it would be the same in the U.S. in a small town. And I can’t agree more with the problem of the religious right in the US. The ‘you must think like me’ mentality of the Christian right is extremely destructive to our culture, our country and how the world sees us. And yes, Americans are more money oriented but I do think that some of that is because we have to be. You have to make more money in the US to survive – there’s $100,000+ university costs, $1,000+/month health care insurance to pay, and retirement to save for since you can’t live on Social Security. The fact that people in your small town can be so stupid as to key your car, act violently towards you, and send you horrible emails is unexcuseable. There is what I call a ‘sub-culture’ in the U.S. that is macho, aggressive based and is totally intolerant of anyone that doesn’t think like them. They are an ignorant bunch, making them dangerous. Again, they’re mostly found in small towns in conservative States. I apologize for that behavior on behalf of my country. I will disagree with you though on the statement that Anglos love France but hate the French. I do see that, but frankly, more with the Brits than the Americans. I do not dislike the French as a people, nor do I know any Americans who would generally say they dislike the French anymore than they would generally say they dislike Americans. In fact, I find the behavior of the French quite different depending on the region, and I would say the same of Americans. But I dislike the treatment I receive by some small town French people and, because I grew up in a very different culture with people with different ‘personas and personalities’, I am more comfortable in my culture. There is a difference between disliking and being uncomfortable with. And finally, America is more isolated than countries in Europe so Americans tend to speak more Spanish than any other language since our neighbors speak Spanish. Europeans are surrounded by other languages and there is lots of English on the TV and radios so they learn it that way as well. So yes, I would agree that Europeans speak more languages than Americans. I would say though that if an American does speak another language, they will usually try to speak it with someone. If a French person does speak English or another language, they are much less likely to speak it with a foreigner unless it’s in their job description. I feel for you. Even as an American I could not live in Georgia or a small town in the US. Any chance you can move to Miami, Chicago, New York, LA, San Francisco or some other big city? Cynthia
June 27th, 2011 at 9:04 am
Thanks for your answer. No I cannot move right now. We are retired and my husband has some health issues. Our home is paid for but rather than trying to sell and move, which is always stressful, we travel, on a budget, as often as we can, in the South or other states or abroad. While here in Georgia I am busy with reading and my blog where I have made many friends from all over, the US and overseas. I have to admit that I heard that there are Americans who speak French in Florida in the towns peopled in winter by French Canadians, but I have not been there.
June 27th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Vagabonde, yes, there are towns with international communities in Florida. In fact, the town where I bought my new home (Fort Myers,Cape Coral, Naples area) has a huge German population and many other Europeans. In fact, they have a French Connection club and an European Club. I plan to attend. They also have a great French boulangerie and bistro – both owned by Parisians. Lots of Latin influence too and a large Indian group so I’m looking forward to more international living – in fact, a lot more international living than I’m doing now since most people in my town are French with almost no international community. I really miss the diversity I had in Los Angeles. Cynthia
November 9th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
silestone colors…
[...]Video Diary of an American in France » Blog Archive » 25 Major Cultural Differences Between France and America[...]…
December 7th, 2011 at 10:03 am
Hey,
I found it really interesting. But I would add a little nuance of the #11. I’m french, and I agree that American people (and generally, anglo-saxon people) are more open to others than us. But in the same time, I notice when I was leaving in Ireland, that people talk to you about superficial things (weather, where they live, their job) but it’s more complicated (from my point of view) to go deeper in the relationship. I mean, it’s hard to have really close friends, the ones you call when you get troubles. But the smile that welcome you from people you don’t know, the first time you meet them, is really nice
December 7th, 2011 at 11:36 am
Hi, Charline, thanks so much for your comment. Perhaps I’ve been very lucky with my friends in America. I have friends who would do anything for me and I could trust them with my life. I’ve had these friends 26 years. I haven’t found anyone even close that in France and have heard the same thing from other anglo friends too about trying to make friends in France so I’m not sure what to say. Perhaps it’s that fact that we (you and I) are foreigners anf that makes people more hesitant to make deep close friendships with us. But then again, I’ve asked my French friends (I do have some more casual friendships in France with French women) and they have told me that the French women don’t get close to each other and share as much personal info about themselves in France as they do in America (she lived in the US for a few years). I would say also that the Irish and British are more closed and reserved than Americans too so perhaps we are comparing apples to oranges. There are huge cultural differences between Great Britain and America. Cynthia
December 27th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Hotels in South Beach…
[...]Video Diary of an American in France » Blog Archive » 25 Major Cultural Differences Between France and America[...]…
February 10th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Hi and I actually “stumbled” on your blog and found it refreshing to hear the real story. I am going back to France later this year as I was there many years ago for a short trip. I remember saying that I must return. I was so jetlagged at the time as it was a business trip and didn’t see a whole lot. I have a desire to go to Paris, then to the French Riveria. You mentioned you live in Florida part time and France part time…..I have contact in Florida too. But I live in Australia.
write soon. pamella
February 13th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Thanks for visiting my blog, Pamella. I hope you have found it entertaining and helpful. I hope you have a great trip back to France, Cynthia
April 16th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
SDHC…
[...]Video Diary of an American in France » Blog Archive » 25 Major Cultural Differences Between France and America[...]…
August 22nd, 2012 at 11:42 am
As a French living abroad, I always find it interesting to hear the thoughts of people who took the opposite trip and I found yours to be particularily interesting. While there is lot that I agree with and lot that I disagree your point about women is the one that surprised me the most.
“The French think they have it much worse than they do” and indeed, I do think women have it really bad in France but the USA is quite not the country that comes to one’s mind when you think or hear about women rights. To be quite frank, my first reaction was “wait, aren’t the USA a country where abortion is constantly challenged, where access to contraception and abortion is neither free nor easy?”.
Then, I read your point again and what I found really interesting is your choices of issues when speaking about women’s right, protection and opportunities. I think that might reveals a lot about how women see feminism or sexism in France and in the US and what women’s rights seem the more important in France and the US.
Your first point came as a surprise because I believe it to be wrong. Women do host a lot of TV shows and while there is still a long way to go, women in France have more access to the highest positions in politics than they do in the US. In France, one of the 2 main parties chose a female candidate in 2007 something that never happened in the US and is currently presided by a woman. Women represent 50% of the current government members and have held prominent positions in the government in the past such as prime minister (equivalent to your Secretary of State)and Secretary of : Defense, Justice, Treasury, Economy and Trade, Interior and Homeland Security, Labor…. 27% of the members of our house of representative and 22 of the Senate are women compared to 17% in each in the US. 15% are mayors of large cities compared to 8% in the US. We do however have less CEO (7.5% in France compared to 16% in the US which is a huge difference) but the ratio is growing faster (granted it’s not difficult coming from that low).
The second point however came as a surprise because in France, most women would first consider the issue of financial security through the question of how women can support themselves (i.e. their access to equal jobs to men and to equal salary for equal competences) and NOT through how a man can support them financially. The mere idea that women’s right is making sure that their husband, ex-husband or deceased husband provide for them would come accross as sexist and chauvinist to a lot of French women. Protection of the woman in case of a divorce or the death of their husband is important but from a women’s right point of view, independance is considered more important. Also, I do not believe that being married makes any difference to the tax you pay; however, if you are financially supporting a person (either a spouse or a child who do not work), your tax will be reduced which just seems logical because an amount of X $ to feed 1 person is not the same as an amount of X $ to feed 2 people. Children do not get any percentage of ownership of the house (or anything else for that matter) in case of a divorce. The only thing they can get is alimony depending on the circumstances. Women will also get one in a lot of cases. When looking at divorce or inheritance laws, you also have to keep in mind that the vast majority of married couple do not have a prenup’ or any kind of contract. Thus, everything owned by the couple is pretty much divided 50-50 between them (save for what can be proven to have been acquired before the wedding or inherited). So when you say that the child get 75% of the ownership of the house, you have to remember that it’s actually 75% of the half of the house that belonged to his father so in reality, it is only 37.5% of the house. If the child is from both parent, the mother will get her 50% + a choice between living for free in the house for the rest of her life (including the possibility to rent it for money) or an additionnal 12.5% of it. Also more and more couples when buying a house sign a provision stating that the full ownership of the house will go to the last surviving member of the couple.
In France, the 5 topics that will almost always come up when talking about that subject are :
- women’s right over their own body, namely : sexuality (sleeping with who they want and dressing as they want without being judge), contraception and abortion (which should be easily accessed regardless of age, wealth or education without anyone feeling free to give his opinion on your personal choice);
- equality at work and while the glass ceiling is an issue that is of importance, the discussion will usually focuse more on the situation for the majority / all women (salary, access to any career path, maternity leave etc);
- equality at home (repartition of housechores for example);
- violence toward women (domestic and sexual violences);
- representation of the women (stereotypes in the media, sexualisation of the women in the media – especially in advertisement -, and getting out of the saint vs slut cliché).
It’s both surprising and interesting to see that those criterions are not the ones on which you evaluate women’s right in a country. I do not know how the US stands on those compared to France (except for the first one in which they seem to be way worse) but that might explain why French women would consider that France “wins” on the issue of women’s right while US women would consider USA wins.
September 4th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
[...] 1. Vote/ Unity [...]
September 25th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
I found the most interest part of your cultural differences was points on business and work ethic especially #19 and #20. My mother is orginally from France and my father studied abroad in college. She would definately agree with me that Americans are workaholics, it’s a common sterotype across the world that Americans are a lazy people, which couldn’t be further from the truth. We work long hours and when on vaccation we usally bring our cell phones, laptops, and work with us. Not all parts of our strong beleifs in unfettered capitalism and free-markets are bad though. Throughout the 1990′s and before the financial meltdown in 08 our rate of gdp grow was higher and our unemployment rate was lower than in France ( I’m not sure if this is true anymore since we’re both in pretty bad recessions). Our American system is a richer, more dynamic, and entrepreneurial economy- but also much harsher and more unequal. That being said, their is also much less income inequality in france as well as better social services. It’s not so much as which system is better but which one you prefer. In my mind I like the American way of doing business but in other areas I like french customs better.
October 1st, 2012 at 3:35 pm
Interesting piece you wrote and I enjoyed reading it. Do take in consideration, however, that you went to France with your American can-do attitude, your American education and name recognition. It would therefore be hard to beat you down, you weren’t raised with constant negativity, because you come from the land of Superman where “Nothing is Impossible”.
I was born and raised in France and ran away from there in 1979 to come live in the U.S. It was the best decision I made in my life. I never regretted it, not for a minute or even a second! I found opportunities in all aspects of life, a government so much less intruding, bureaucracy so much less cumbersome. The American dream is real, work hard, take chances and you will succeed, which I did. I came here with nothing and speaking no English; America allowed for me to return to school (which couldn’t be done in 1979 France), and I found an educational system that was not centrally planned through the endoctrination of Education Nationale. I also found a pluralistic media. How incredible that was to me at the time. I married an American and raised two beautiful American children, they were never frightened with the scary stories I was raised with (The Grimm Brothers, La Legende de Saint Nicholas, The Little Girl With Matches, etc) they also were never whipped with martinets. In fact Americans had no idea what “Martinets” were and were shocked when I told them. Heck, in America only slaves were whipped, and not even children-slaves. (And that was over 100 years ago).. Imagine that!
Nope, there is no comparison whatsoever, and you couldn’t pay me enough money to live in France again.
Evidently America is falling today for the same socialistic illusions that my own French countrymen fell for over 60 years ago. Evidently when you promise the moon, it is human nature to believe a lie and history tends to repeat itself ad-nausea. We see the precipice France has dug with so called “free” stuff! Wish us good luck with ridding America of this invading plague, in the meantime I will tell you the 3 little words that I know upset the French…
God Bless America!
October 1st, 2012 at 6:38 pm
Annika, there is truth in what you wrote. I was not raised in France, never went to its schools or heard its fairytales so I can’t address that. But now that I’ve lived in both countries as well as Italy, there are things I definitely appreciate about France. Their medical system is very good and available to all – not true in the U.S. The system is set up to benefit everyone by providing a university education to anyone whose grades show promise versus how much money you have. There is less poverty and inequality in France with most French falling within the defines of the Middle Class. It’s not a workaholic society which I find refreshing, even though admittedly, I am still a workaholic. The way political campaigns are run in France is definitely superior to the U.S. Americans worry about the ‘morality,’ likeability and religious beliefs of the politicians more than they care about the issues and platforms. And the French vote at 85% of the population versus America’s pathetic 55% at best. Yes, there are plenty of things I don’t like about France too which is true about America for me as well. The reality is there is no perfect place. It’s really what one wants out of life, what one’s goals are, and one’s priorities. I’m more comfortable in the U.S. but probably for different reasons than you are. I actually think a little socialism like caring for the poor and sick, making sure all Americans get an education if they want one, ensuring people have medical care, and political campaign reform which ensures our elections don’t become auctions are all good aspects of the European system and I would vote for those things in a second. In fact, I will be doing so come November. Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts and for commenting. Cynthia
October 1st, 2012 at 7:14 pm
Patapouf, I was very interested to read your post. I found your stats on women in politics educational. I would also like to point out that I wrote the post 1.5 years ago, just prior to the Tea Party politics that has declared a war on women in the U.S. The kinds of legislation that has been introduced and even passed at the State level in the past year has been beyond belief and appalling. I would not defend America’s record in regard to women rights (on women’s health like contraception and rape and abortion) any longer, given where we have gone in the past year.
As for how things are handled when a women’s husband dies, I can only say it is what I found when I did considerable research. That doesn’t mean what I found is correct. I would not nor would most professional women define women’s rights by the laws regarding a man’s ability and responsibility to support their wives. In fact, in the U.S. if the women makes more than the man, she will be the one paying the alimony if divorced. My description of this was more of a personal one – shock at what I had discovered once I was in France and married. I was stunned to find out that if my husband died the children would get 75% of the house and his ex-wife would get 90% of his pension and I would get virtually nothing (all confirmed by our Notaire). Now if I was still in my own country making a six figure income with the business I had there, none of that would have mattered. However, I gave all that up to move to France and had mistakenly made some assumptions about safety nets. So my commenting on that was more of a personal description than a general statement about women’s rights. This is my first marriage and I have been self-supporting since I was 17 years old, never once receiving financial help from anyone (including a man) for my entire life. So I have not gone through life expecting hand-outs from men to give me financial security – my life has been just the opposite, in fact. But I do expect a level of financial fairness within the legal confines of a marriage which I have not experienced here.
I would agree with you that the US has a big problem with the slut vs saint media representation of women, and that America is a violent society. I don’t watch TV in France so I can’t speak to how the media portrays women, but I do know you have a much lower level of violence in France.
As for women in the workplace, I think I would still disagree with you there. While I have never worked in a French business, I have many friends who do. The stories they tell me of their treatment by their male colleagues and the glass ceilings they face is far worse than what I hear and experienced in the workplace in the U.S. The kind of sexual harassment I’ve heard about in France would never be tolerated in the US and would produce a lawsuit in response.
Thanks so much for taking time to write an intelligent comment. I found it very educational and insightful. Cynthia
October 2nd, 2012 at 12:25 pm
Cynthia; The health insurance in the U.S. is not perfect, Americans have screamed for changes for years, limitation on Jury’s awards (tort reform) option to buy health insurance across state lines, options to buy catastrophic insurance etc. Instead we ended up with a partisan top-down-shut-up-and-obey program we did not want, and that no republican voted for (except ONE) and that over 63% of Americans still refuse. So much for democracy. And the estimated cost of obamacare has already climbed to 1.6 trillion dollars ($1,600,000,000,000) over 10 years. Who will pay? 80% will be the middle class, it will definitely be your kids and my kids. They can all become equally poor, like the French of my youth.
But you do not seem to be aware of the big issue with health insurance in France, as it relates to the elderly. Securite sociale is extremely costly insurance (to workers, of course it’s free to non-workers) and yes, it may be alright for the young and healthy. But if your grandma is old and needs a transplant while being useless… do bring forth a trash bin along with grandma to the hospital. They will not practice “medicine lourde” on her, and if she’s past a certain age she won’t get a transplant. I have seen this @ Hotel-Dieu hospital, many French I speak with have seen it too. It is not because you don’t read of it in the news that it does not exist (remember that all printed & broadcasted news media obtain direct and indirect subsidies from government; France doesn’t really have a ‘free’ press). State mandarins decide who lives and who dies, and the elderly are easy target. And if you don’t realize this, I urge you to educate yourself.
As for voting and the “European system”, seems to me that France has huge problems on its hand that aren’t exactly “European”. Did you see many “European” flags Place de la Republique on election night?
We are in the business of providing section 8 housing for the poor (South Fla.). Beautiful homes with pool and gardens, and granite countertops in middle class neighborhoods, fully equipped, washer-dryer, etc. The state pays over $2,200 per month for 4 or 5 bedroom homes with a two car garage, and the residents pay nothing. Zip! Of course they all get medicare, ‘free’ phones, foodstamps, and other forms of assistance. The very poor are much better off in America than they are in France, I know you won’t read it in French press, Megan O’Matz from the Sun Sentinel wrote an article about section 8 recently. Don’t believe the lies.
Truth is rarely what it seems. Victor Hugo wrote “La verite est comme le soleil, elle fait tout voir mais ne se laisse pas regarder”.
I see you think everyone can get a ‘free’ university education. Even though I was French raised in France, I did not. Because the system has no qualm in kicking you out if you are rebellious, or if you have an unrecognized disability that affects your learning (it was my case). There is a great percentage that falls through the cracks in France, they don’t exactly have “the disability act” in French schools (as they do in America). And do remember another thing, the French stay in school past the age of 25 because there are no jobs. Overeducated and underemployed cannot be looked at as an example.
Bien a vous.
October 2nd, 2012 at 1:30 pm
Bonjour, Annika, Thanks for your comment. I have to disagree however on some points. My in-laws are 78 and 92 years old and have had health issues they have had to deal with. On each count they received excellent care without question. No one has had to have a transplant or something that serious so I can’t personally speak that so I won’t try. But I’ve never heard of the elderly being denied anything due to their age. I do agree with you that France has an unemployment problem, and issue which is spreading throughout the globe. America’s unemployment is decreasing which I’m grateful for since I’m living in Southwest Florida now 1/2 to 2/3rds of the year. I agree that some youth are left out at the university level in France, and I’m not a huge fan of the education system through high school since it seems to be more about regurgitation of information than problem-solving. However, I’d rather see kids rejected to university based on having poor grades than on having poor families, which is what happens here in the States. Students leave university with $100K loans and then can’t find jobs that pay enough to make the monthly payments. That never happens in France.
As for all the poor people in the U.S. getting free hand-outs, beautiful homes, etc I can address that since I spent 30 years in the nonprofit sector working with low income, homeless, domestic violence/abused women, and the working poor. I also had a consulting business in Los Angeles for 12 years specializing in affordable housing, including Section 8 housing and others. So I know very well the eligibility requirements for these programs and how they work and they do not work as you represented them. Yes, if you look hard enough, you will always find extreme examples of people abusing the system, or programs that aren’t managed well. But in general, there are enough check and balances to ensure there isn’t much abuse. For instance, less than 2% of welfare recipients receive more than they should (Dpt of Labor stats for 10 years); or you can only receive welfare/Tanf for 5 years in your entire life and then you’re on your own. You must meet very stringent income requirements (or sometimes other requirements like disability, etc) to be eligible for subsidized housing like Section 8 and you must pay a portion of your income as rent or get thrown out. The waiting lists for this kind of housing in Los Angeles can be as long as 6 years. When one of my agencies I consulted for announced a new affordable housing building opening they received 3,000 applications for 40 units. The services available to the poor like Food Stamps, child care, education, affordable housing, etc etc are in the proposed budget cuts by both parties. However, I never see much being cut out of the budget when it comes to war machines or Congressional salaries and benefits.
As I said, there is no perfect place. I have plenty of issues with both countries, especially when it comes to women’s issues and rights. So I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree and vote our consciences. Cynthia
October 2nd, 2012 at 3:06 pm
Cynthia: “to be eligible for subsidized housing like Section 8 and you must pay a portion of your income as rent or get thrown out. The waiting lists for this kind of housing in Los Angeles can be as long as 6 years.”
Actually most of our section 8 folks don’t pay anything monthly – the ones who do pay it’s about $100 more or less per month. Yes, there are waiting lists for vouchers, and you know what remedy there is, don’t you? You go out of state for one year, then return with a voucher. Voila! OR, you can have a baby… and that’s the favored solution. I found out from one of our tenants (whose 15 year old is pregnant) that the teen will obtain her own voucher soon enough, she is already in the system under her mother’s name, and because of this there will be no waiting time for her. Les voies de Section 8 ne sont pas impenetrables… Oh yes there are many abuses in the system, I would say 30%+ from what I have personally observed.
But most importantly (and I don’t think you are aware of this because it is recent) the real estate crash has opened palaces in gated neighborhoods to section 8 folks. Les pauvres francais ont beaucoup a envier des pauvres americains ! Or until America goes bankrupt the way of Europe, which shouldn’t take too long the way we are going ($6,000,000,000,000 additional debt in only 3 1/2 years !)
October 6th, 2012 at 10:58 am
Wow! Thanks for taking the time to write all of this! I study French language and culture, but would never learn this in a class or a book!I’ve often thought about moving to France for a while to perfect my language skills, but I am 52 and I’m sure you’re right about the culture shock!
October 8th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
Hello Cynthia; You described some of the French napoleonic laws, (I missed that at first) and can now see that they were probably used against you. I am sorry about this, and wanted to welcome you back, and tell you that I wish you the best.
Anyone who’s had to deal with French laws is deserving of compassion, they don’t tell you that in French travel books, and Americans would be shocked if they knew what goes on in the French “justice” system, actually, that’s one of the reasons why I’m presently writing a book.
The French can’t pled the Fifth, their attorneys can’t order a private investigation, a jury’s conviction doesn’t have to be unanimous, the jury doesn’t reach a conclusion on its own (it is swayed by the court director who deliberates with them), and so on and so on.
In France, an accused person might ‘rot’ in jail for five years, possibly without ever seeing a judge, while awaiting his/her court date. Did you know that ? There are two kinds of prisoners, the ones held indefinitely pending trial are called prévenus, and the ones serving time after being charged with a crime by a court trial are named accusés. Prévenus do not benefit from preferential treatment, they are not eligible for bail and suicides are prevalent amongst them.
France does not have the death penalty per say, and the French claim ‘superiority’ of their ‘compassionate system’. But French prison guards provide inmates with the suicidal tools they need to make room and free up space. Belts, shoe laces, plastic bags, scarves, shawls, etc. are dispensed by warders without concern. Therefore the French have the ‘death penalty’ just the same. But as opposed to America, it isn’t the guiltiest or the most violent that are punished. In France the prisoners who die at the hands of “justice” are the ones that are most desperate. So much for “compassion”.
If you are thrown in a French jail, whether or not the accusation has grounds, you do not have the constitutional right to have your detention reviewed by a judge within 72 hours; in other words you are not protected by habeas corpus. And if your incarceration occurs during the summer months… well, court houses are closed over the month of August, all judges are unionized and gone for the holidays. So you will probably wait six weeks to be heard, if you are lucky. It is true that a skeleton staff remains over the summer for ‘urgent’ cases, and of course they define what ‘urgent’ is.
There was the “Outreau scandal” also called a “judicial disaster” by ex-president Jacques Chirac, where eighteen people were accused of sexually abusing minors, and were held in captivity for years on unfounded suspicion. They were thrown in jail in the year 2000, and by the end of the appeal trial five years later, only four people remained convicted. Fourteen innocent suspects had nevertheless spent years jailed on remand and one (or perhaps two) had committed suicide (source: Wiki), two had lost their businesses, and two others had been divorced by their wives. None were allowed visitation from their children during captivity, fourteen people had their lives shattered by unjust imprisonment. As a consequence of this mockery of justice and the resulting publicity (especially thanks to the resulting publicity), there were provisions made to give prisoners better access to a judge prior to a court date.
The book I am writing is about the horrors my family and I encountered in France. When it comes to human rights, there is nothing like the protections of the American Constitution. Unfortunately, it’s only when they are themselves comfronted to an unjustice that the French realize how biased, unjust, and backwards, their own system is.
Welcome back to The Land of The Free.
October 23rd, 2012 at 12:16 am
It’s hard to find knowledgeable people on this topic, but you sound like you know what you’re talking about! Thanks
December 9th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Hi ! my name’s Alexandra and I’m French. I wanted to know where you live in France, because you have to know that we absolutly cannot generalize French mentality.
Indeed, you will find more welcoming people in the north and south west than in côte d’azur or in Paris. Because parisians and south-eastern French are the ones who deserves the reputation we have abroad. I can assure you that if you leave the US for south-western France, or northern France you will find very welcoming people, who are gonna talk about their life almost immediately, or give you some advices, or you way when you are lost (don’t even hope it in south east). And it is sad to say, but part of France where French are the worst are the part where the rich people are concentrate, because they are more individualist and don’t like to mix themselves. They are more close-minded. In Paris, it may be the same reason as in big cities in america, people are busy and stressed.
You have to know there are a lot of stereotypes about american people. Here, american are reputed for not being open to foreign cultures, and
do not care about what is going on outside the US. We often joke about that, the fact that some american people can’t place a european country on a map. That’s the main stereotype, with fat burger eaters of course =P
French bureaucracy is a mess for everyone, even us have difficulties with it. And it is generally slow because there isn’t enough employees, a lot have been suppressed during the sarkozy years.
I agree that some french people consider that everyone should speak french (especially the ones who are aged over 50), but you have to admit it is quite the same in English-speaking countries.
You said “France is still behind the U.S. when it comes to women’s rights, protections, and opportunities. It’s still very hard for women to get to the top in France and, if you turn on the TV, you’ll see few women or Arabs or blacks hosting a documentary, emceeing a show, being interviewed as a CEO or a high government official.”
Well, I don’t agree with you. Yes in some companies, women will be badly treated by male colleagues, and yes we may not see the same number of black and people on TV than white ones. But, what I don’t understand is why is it so important to you, american people, to underline the fact that someone is the first black to win this or this award, or attend to this or this status. It struck me when I read an article in “the economist” about Harlem Désir. He is the leader of the presidential party, and i read it was the first party leader to be black. And it shocked me because who cares if he’s black, white, red or blue ? So, in terms of numbers, you may be superior for that, but underlining is still considering there is till a difference. Plus, I was literally chocked when I saw (still in “the economist”) that we can find american polls saying something like: 35% of the WHITE middle-class hasn’t already made their mind about the election.
I’d also add that in France, you can have really strong friendships, and get very close to some people, but it depends a lot on the way you met her. But I think we are only very private people who don’t feel the need to tell their life to everyone. Oh! and Id on’t agree with you on the fact that we keep our lives very private. I am in my first year of college, I knew no one, and I met friends very quickly, and I already know a lot of things about their personal life. But that maybe because we don’t belong to the same generation. I know french people over 40 or 50 can be reluctant to make new friends.
And there is a question I wonder about for a long time now: why are religion and community so important to you ?
About unmarried or divorced women who have children, there are taxes but there are also the “allocations” given by the state to financially help families when a baby come (it is based on the number of children and their age)
Appart from that, I agree with you about bad customer services ^^.
You’re not completely right about voting. A lot of French people vote without thinking much. They just look at their face, and believe blindly to promises. But yes, we don’t care bout the lifestyle of the candidates, I think we would have elected DSK (strauss kann) if there hadn”t been the whole scandal (which happened just before the beginning of the campaign). And yes, we often strike, especially la SNCF (the national railway company), and teachers. I think it would be more effective if it wasn’t every year.
Annika, we are now in 2012, you don’t tell children scary stories any more, and neither do we use the martinet ! And no, l’Éducation nationale ins’t perfect, but it has changed a lot too ! You tell things about France that were true about 50 years ago. At the time, it may have been like that, but it is not anymore !! AND there IS free press, of course, there are independent medias, do you really think “Charlie Habdo” or “le Canard Enchaîné”,which are two papers known for their free speech, will keep themselves from demonstrating things ??
December 10th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
You have many good and valid points, and much useful information. However, I do not find 4, re: language, and 10, re: lawsuits, particularly valid as to Americans. Language may evolve, but in the U.S., spelling and grammar matter enough that writers should use dictionaries to confirm spelling and usage, c’est vrai? The comment regarding lawsuits,10, is completely unsupported. The vast majority of actions are brought by companies, not individuals, and most also never make it to the court. Comments about frivolous lawsuits are PR, better stated — propaganda — from either the losing side or legislators who are lobbied to restrict lawsuits against companies.
December 11th, 2012 at 3:57 am
Hello there,
Great post
I’m French living abroad but I totally approve most of your post. I’d just add some stuff 
- We don’t have communities either – it’s something really weird to read stuff like “This politician has to win the black votes” and stuff like that.
- We rely more on the government because something like 40% of our incomes goes in taxes. It’s a totally different point of view.
- We tend to see Americans as an ignorant mass of people gorging themselves on junk food before sueing MacDonalds for making them fat
and on the other side of the spectrum, we have this idea of very money-oriented people living in big cities (you know, like in American sitcoms etc).
- We would never sue anyone or any company randomly. When you’re to the point of sueing a company for making you smoke or spilling your hot coffee on yourself, there is a problem.
- We tend to hate politically correctness. I work in an anglosaxon environment and gosh it pisses me off. French people tend to love black humour, humour about immigrants, race, awful topics… And overseas, you have to check every thing you say just in case you’re not sued because you offended someone, somewhere. In France, if you’re offended, no one cares. Move on!
- I work for an American company and the management is very different: in France, we still have a stupid attitude to hierarchy. Your boss is like God and you’re just a peasant down the pyramid
You have to say “vous” to people you work for even if you started working with them in the 80s, it’s ridiculous. But it’s due to our language and I digress.
- I always feel a bit uncomfortable when people tell me about their kids and all when I first met them, with names and pictures. To be fair, most French (and German) people wouldn’t give a shit about some stranger’s kids. I know I don’t. I feel like it’s being forced on me, and I don’t like that. If we are interested, we will ask (in time). We are colder and more standoffish than Americans, for sure.
- We don’t speak English, I mean, it’s changing with the younger generations but yeah, we love our language. It impacts everything else: how we define a stranger, how we include a foreigner in our social circle, how we judge of someone’s level of intelligence… My cousin is dyslexic and people tend to think she’s retarded, just because her impediment makes her butcher our language.
- We have a very different relation to food as well, and I’m happy that’s the case
Thanks for your post!
Jillian
January 28th, 2013 at 7:45 am
Hi, Jillian, so sorry it took so long to respond. I have trouble keeping up with my life. I just wanted to say that I agree with your post – you point out additional differences that I have observed or experienced. The language thing is something I experience all the time since I’m not fluent and never will be. The other differences exist and it’s really your perspective whether you are comfortable with them or not, or see them as a problem or not. Thanks for adding your thoughts. It’s appreciated. Cynthia
January 28th, 2013 at 8:14 am
Hi, Alexandra, thanks for commenting and forgive my tardiness in responding. America has a very different history than France a history that has required a very aggressive approach to inequality with blacks. Slavery and the after effects made it necessary for them to fight for their rights through lawsuits, affirmative action, etc – all things that were used to fight for the rights of other ethnicities and women during their demand for equal representation and opportunities. So we do think in terms of ‘groups’ more than France. However, I think when you speak to some Arabs living in borderline poverty in France (I see it in every community I’ve visited – there’s almost always an ‘area’ where the Arabs live and where the French don’t), they may wish that there was more affirmative action and ‘group thinking’ that worked on their behalf. They seem more ‘invisible’ in France than say the blacks or Mexicans are in America.
You are very correct in saying that it really depends on the area where you live what kind of welcome or friendliness you experience. I was shocked when I went to the Languedoc region and people were so open and warm and friendly and would start conversations with strangers on the streets and train station. They were animated and talkative. That would NEVER happen in my region, Savoie (the Southeastern part of France that you spoke about). It’s a very closed, cold and unfriendly region, even more so than its neighbor, Haute-Savoie.
As for education, I wrote strictly from my experience as a Stepmom in France, watching the kids get through high school. Some of their teachers would treat them badly, criticize them and try to ‘break them’, never give them encouragement and praise. Keep in mind, both kids graduated within the top 5% of their classes and are in that same percentile in their universities now. It’s not that they were lazy or doing poorly! So I was rather frustrated watching what they had to go through with some classes and teachers, thereby formulating my thinking regarding the education system here. Perhaps their experience was unique to our city?
Thanks again for commenting. It’s always interesting to hear from French people regarding my observations. Cynthia
January 29th, 2013 at 5:36 pm
Your observations are quite similar to what I have written on a page about French mentality on my own streetwise france site. After 14 years, I’ve just about had enough of everything turning into more or less absurd discussions in France, such as why it is necessary to have sufficient toilet paper at a school, and why it is a problem that the town hall posts a letter after the deadline for using it, as written in the letter. Even for the most obvious problems that need to be fixed, they ‘explain’ their toilet paper policy or whatever instead of just fixing the problem, and if you dare criticise a civil servant in a managing position, it is lese-majesty. They expect you to obey them as children, no matter how idiotic they are.
Someone said bureaucracy is slow because there are not enough civil servants. France has one of the largest armies of civil servants in Europe. It is slow because their laws and regulations are endlessly complicated, so not many understand them, not even the civil servants supposed to deal with them; because the government wants to stick its nose in everything you do; and because they haven’t modernised the administration sufficiently, an administration still depending on paper for a major part of what they do, not evey bothering to reply to e-mails because they don’t consider that real correspondence. They suffocate everything with their endless and useless formality.
The French themselves suffer as much from all this as foreigners do, and they have mostly given up doing anything about it.
January 29th, 2013 at 6:29 pm
Hmm, I think your reasons for the French bureaucracy may have hit the nail on the head. Quite insightful. Thanks for commenting and subscribing. Cynthia
January 29th, 2013 at 6:30 pm
Hi Cynthia,
I am a Francophile and an American with French heritage (and a strong sense of it too!).
We have a place in Nice that we visit often, and had a place in Paris as well for years. I studied for a year abroad at the Sorbonne when I was 20 years old. I speak French well enough to take care of everyday things– but not to discuss Voltaire, Sartre, Camus or de Maupassant (though I have read them all).
I was shocked at how I agreed with everything you said about both countries. It’s a very fair-minded critique. All the pluses and minuses. Very comprehensive. I have had a love affair with France for 60 years. We still enjoy our visits there immensely. I have visited my French relatives on the west coast on the île de Ré. They rolled out the red carpet for us. Amazing people. When you love someone, or a country, or a place– it’s best to do so with full knowledge of their best qualities and their faults. You have depicted these so very accurately– to a “t” for both countries. Being an entrepreneur, I don’t think I could live full time in France permanently– not so happily, anyway. We adore Nice, and have made great friends there– but it’s the French bureaucracy that would bring me to a boiling point. It’s just too cumbersome and in love with itself. I just don’t care for that level of government involvement. I am a humanitarian, so I cannot support the idea of an America only for the rich. But, I do enjoy the freedom and government support for small businesses in the U.S.– and that even carries over to the local level.
It’s a plus, rather than a minus, to know how to navigate two cultures 
Not bitter at all– happy for the bi-cultural exposure. I look forward to hearing more here. I find cultural differences fascinating and educational.
We have a place in Fort Lauderdale, Florida too– and we love to visit. We rent it out to the same Canadian every winter for 4-5 months and that pays the yearly expenses. We visit as we can the rest of the year. Our solution is similar to yours– visiting Nice as often as we can– but maintaining our residency here in the U.S. My significant other is northern European. I guess like you, we now consider ourselves “hybrids”— Euro/American—- or American-Euro– and consider ourselves the better for it
January 29th, 2013 at 6:58 pm
Bonjour, M Raymond, and thanks for your comment. I’m glad you found my critiques fair for both cultures, as well as equally critical. There are pros and cons to every culture and France nor America are exceptions. It’s best to take the best from both and not take the rest too seriously, if you have that luxury. Thanks again for your comment. Do check out the rest of the site if you have any traveling you’d like to do in France – I have over 230 videos about different cities, regions and events/festivals in France. And if you ever want to see the ‘insider’ French Alps, come on our tours. Cynthia
March 12th, 2013 at 8:25 am
Hi Cynthia,
Thanks for this post, it’s quiet interesting to have an outsider’s point of view. And all comments are very interesting, expressing different point of views.
As for me, I’m form a polish house but I grew up in France, so I grew up with 2 different cultures, making me maybe not the best illustration of french culture, but certainly aware of its specificities.
Although I do agree with most of was said, a few remarks:
- French have a lot of vacation, which gives them time to travel the world. Americans don’t, and as a result, you often seem less open, you seem to know less about other cultures and you often seem not to care. (but that’s mostly a difference I noticed amongst young people; french old people are not open-minded, that’s for sure.)
- French educational system and healthcare are indeed free, but that comes with a price. Basically, if you want everyone to go to the same college, you have to lower the level of the entrance exam. Unfortunately, we used to be able to make a difference just by studying but that’s less true as time goes by, in the name of equality. Same for medicare: if you want every foreigner and non-worker to get free access to it (and that’s now the case), you have to lower the level of service you can provide. If you have enough money, you end up paying for a better service, else, you’re screwed.
- french do not talk about money, and I can even add french do not like rich people. It’s a SHAME to be rich, so even if you try, you won’t succeed, cuz the government will basically take everything from you through taxes. That coming from a girl brought up in the house of 2 entrepreneurs, trying really hard all their lifes just to see the government higher taxes every year. The valued thing to do is indeed to work in a big company or in the administration and go home at 5 p.m.
- I’ve discussed with many of my friends who studied in the US: it’s not easy to make real friends in America. People chitchat, but that’s it ! With french people, you’ll actually have a hard time at first, but passed the coldness, given time, you’ll make real friends. Actually on that issue, I think it’s overall a cultural problem: it’s easier for french speaking people with a french background to make friends with french people, and same goes for americans. Not sure you can master that easily.
Last but not least, I work with americans all the time. And the one thing I really, really hate is that americans consider they’re the bests at everything. It’s a really good thing to love your country, french should sure learn that from you, but “trop c’est trop ! Demasiado ! Enough !!”
I mean, in all the companies I’ve worked for, even among my american friends, it always seems you think you’re better than us, or for that matter, better than everyone else in the world. That’s really, really anoying.
As for me I think there are pros and cons in both culture (as well as in my polish culture). Important thing is to understand the differences and respect them. I have a lot of trouble with some aspects of the french culture, being brought up in a slightly different one, so that’s why I would love to go live in the US to “test it” a bit.
Well, I hope it will enlighten any next reader!
Have a nice day
April 30th, 2013 at 3:38 pm
Hello Cythia,
You have a fascinating insight on the two cultures. I have been living Glendale near Los Angeles, California for 17 years but before this I have lived in France for the first 12 years of my life, so basically all of my childhood. I grew up in Launaguet, Midi-Pyrénées, which is about 9 km north of Toulouse. The French definitely take eating very seriously, no room to mess around there. Recess along with lunch inside the cafeteria at schools (public in my case) was definitely at least an hour and thirthy minutes long. We would sit down behind round tables, have a procelaine plate, metal silverware, and a glass made of glass in front of us along with a basket of sliced baguette all waiting for us. Then the cafeteria workers would serve all of us the the three-course meal for the day one by one, allowing enough time for us to finish each one. But wait, before we even sit at the table we needed cloth bibs, which we would leave on a racks for the next day (in case we don’t forget to bring them with us at school each time). If you do not have your bib, the cafeteria will provide one for you until you bring your own. You could not eat without your bib.
Another thing I found fascinating at school is that you could not attend if you do not have your “trousse” or fountain pen! You need to have your materials or else forget about attending class! Not staying in class in that case is probably better since it would save you the embarressement from your peers. France definitely has a way to make you “get with the program” rather quickly in life. As a side note, my parents are from Iran (father being Armenian from Iran and mother being Persian), it took a while for them to get me the things to “get with the program” while growping up in France. But I have to say, there is a beauty in writing with fountain pens and in cursive as opposed to ball-point pens and in print in the USA. In the 7th grade, shortly I had arrived in Glendale, I was discourage to bring my fountain pen in school by my ESL teacher and had to start writing in print.
At my elementary school in France, it was the norm to go rock-climbing, spelunking, camping, hiking, picnicking, cross-country skiing in the Pyrenees, canoing, archery, bird-watching (had to carry and know how to use region map + compass along with binoculars), etc… just to name a few. We were also all about the arts and crafts: made bird nests, created jewelry from beads and string, papier-mâché, worked with clay, learned the art of handling a marionette properly, got invloved with theater, etc… It was truly an amazing time growing up as a child in the 1990s. I also had tons of encyclopedias of flora and fauna, be it aquatic life, mushrooms, plants, trees, insects, birds, etc… They all had these beautiful drawings for the illustrations of the animal/plant (very much the style since the Renaissance period when it comes to depict wildlife with its minute details). I don’t know if these readily available encyclopedias still exist in France (especially with the internet being around).
So when most French kids were reading their beloved “bandes dessinées”, I was busy reading a whole lot of readily available detailed encyclopedias about wildlife. Which brings me to another point and I don’t know if you have noticed this Cynthia, but for me, whenever I go to any French household, they always seem to have 1) two bottles of “syrop”, one of grenadine and the other of mint side by side like husband and wife and 2) an entire area of their bookshelf dedicated to a collection of “bande dessinées”, hehe. It makes me smile each time I see that!
As much as I understand Americans, a big part of me also understands French people. I speak very differently when I start a conversation in French with a Frenchman or Frenchwoman and vice versa with Americans in English. I find the French very enthusiastic when speaking about what brings humanity closer together. In Los Angeles for example, I personally find conversations very limited (no offense to anyone from there). The friends I have made in Los Angeles wouldn’t really have happened if our “common interests” weren’t aligned. So if one friend might really be into beer and I happen to love beer too, then that friendship is locked into that realm for most part. Because many Americans tend to be more “specialized” in their field with work for instance, they tend to have the same approach with life outside of work, like with friendships for instance (at least from my observation anyway). The French mentality for me is one that has been trained to be well-rounded. This doesn’t mean they will necessarily be open to everything because France tends to have its many rules revolving around etiquette in society, hence why they have opinions about absolutely everything, including a mere fly on a windowpane! Hehe! As far as the French being more reserved and keeping to themselves as Americans, that’s a simple one for me. Americans tend to be nicer right away because a huge part of their mainstream culture is based on business and consumerism (can’t have one without the other). Being open right off the bat is part of our customer service culture here in the States. We have this openness because the majority of people in the States have it and are applying it daily! France’s culture is not heavily based on this business-consumerist culture that we have developed in the US over the years. France has had other things to cultivate in time and the business-consumerist culture has not been one of them.
I would happy to hear any thoughts on this and by no means am I attacking the States with feeling that they practice a business-consumerist culture and how big it is here. I enjoy both countries very much and the States has brought me many joys that I will never forget. Those joys and even struggles helped me shape myself for the better!
By the way, I am planning in returning back to Toulouse, France to earn my TEFL certificate and begin teaching English as a foreign language there! Luckily I have kept in touch with some childhood classmates/buddies so it won’t be too hard not only to reintegrate myself into the culture but to keep me away from loneliness from the majority of the time, especially knowing the language fluently.
Did I mention I loved reading all you had to say, Cynthia?
(Apologies for any typos or other errors)
Many wonderful wishes to you and your family from eternally sunny California!
May 4th, 2013 at 11:24 pm
Hi Cynthia,
I am sorry to be so late answering you but I had not since your answer before. Thanks for your very nice and detailed answered.
I understand better why you pointed out the financial support in case of divorce or death. I was really surprised you would bring that point up in a short paragraph on women rights and I wrongly assumed that maybe it was because this was an important topic for American women when it comes to women rights. I can understand that you were shocked to discover that your children would get 75% of the house and the previous spouse 90% of the retirement benefits if your husband died, leaving you with nearly nothing. I believe this is true since a notaire told you so but I think this is due to your personal circumstances and it does not represent the situation of the average or the majority of French married couples.
I am not sure whether I was clear when I explained this in my previous post but this is what happens in most cases when a husband dies:
- first, the common property of the couple is divided between the deceased husband and his widow. As I said, in France, most couples do not get a prenup’ so basically, most of what was bought during the marriage is a common property of the couple and is divided equally.
- secondly, the properties of the deceased (i.e. : his half) are shared among his heirs. If there is no will, it is true that the children will share 75% of his properties and the wife will be left with only 25%. If there is no children from a different woman, the widow can also choose to have usufruct of the house and furniture rather than her 25%. In a lot of cases nowadays, couples buying a house sign a clause that automatically transfer full ownership of the house to the last surviving spouse.
However, when you add step 1 (50%) and step 2 (25% of the husband’s 50%), you can see that the wife actually owns a total of 62.5% of the house. So I feel that married women receive a fair share but they do so at step 1 (division of the couple’s properties) rather than step 2 (inheritance per se). It is true though that if a man is the only owner of the house, his widow will be left with a very small portion of it, should he die. However, this situation is fortunately rather rare in France.
May 5th, 2013 at 7:16 am
Hi, Patapouf, thanks for your email and interesting facts. They are not true in my situation since my husband owns the house alone but it’s good to know how things work in a ‘normal’ circumstance. Thanks for taking the time to write. I’ll keep it for future discussions regarding this topic. Cynthia
May 5th, 2013 at 7:31 am
Hello, Arin, thanks so much for your thoughtful and insightful comment. Sorry it took so long to respond. I’ve been on grant writing deadlines and then straight off to Connecticut for an 8 day training to be a Tauck Tours Tour Director. As of tomorrow I leave for France for my onboard training on the France river cruising. I’m having trouble just finding time to breath these days.
What you point out about the French education system brings up another point about the differences between France and America. France is highly invested in conformity – learn the same, act the same, follow the etiquette laws, dress the same, and be 100% French. America embraces individuality and being different and innovative. Being a conformist when I was growing up (60′s and 70′s) was the worse possible thing you could be. Of course, times have changed. I think both extremes are wrong and we should find something in the middle. Having spent 29 years in Los Angeles and lived in Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, I can say that Los Angeles isn’t really true America. It’s like living in a bubble there and, while there are many things I loved about it, I hated the superficiality of so many of the people (produced by the whole Hollywood/movie industry). I find people with much better conversation skills and depth outside of that area. As far as charity goes though, I don’t find the level of giving, volunteering, and generosity in any other country that matches that of America. It’s part of our tradition and culture that stems from our religious beliefs and history.
We too have Syrop at our house for the children but our is fruity.
Good luck with your new adventure of moving back to France and beginning your career. Toulouse is a lovely city and region so you have chosen well. I hope it goes better than you even planned and you have many successes. Bon courage! Cynthia
May 16th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
G’day,
I am from DownUnder (Australia) and I have been living in France for more than 15 years. I agree with a lot of what has been said. For me, there are many americans in Paris and in France that have perfectly adapted. However, I do find americans are possibly those that expect the most from other countries. They are led to believe that for whatever reason. I noticed two things that made american citizens decide to stay. One was to have a purpose a goal an objective and the other one was to get over the USA. You need sheer grit to make it in this country but do not take it personally. It is tough on everyone who lives here. You have got to get on with what you love and know and you will break through. I have had so many French people help me. I think the first two years I stayed in Paris I did not buy one meal as everybody wanted to know about Australia, and I was invited everywhere. Of course I had some rough times that’s life..stop whinging and get on with what you do best…if you really are great business people then get out there you only need one person to help you. Stop selling yourself and communicate what you can do!
June 2nd, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Hi…
I was amazed by what you wrote, and sometimes I was even wondering if you were living in the same France as me. I’m a 26 year old student, actually in Athens, GA for 6 months. With my first visit here 2 years ago, I have lived for a year in the USA. And I am married to an American who went to live for a year in France. He read some points you shared with me, and left saying “bullshit”. On some points, I couldn’t agree more. It is like you are talking about a completely different France. However, I go along with you for some points.
1. “Solidarity”: I come from a small village, which has know many storms, and had few means to overpass them. There, solidarity was here. Of course. Just like in the USA. When it comes to big cities (I have lived in Bordeaux and have family in Paris), solidarity means nothing, in France or in the US. I don’t think “solidarity” means the same for you and for me. You talk about sacrifice for your family. We have that. Who wouldn’t make sacrifices for the family he/she has? And just like Americans, we do believe that our individual actions really matter. Collectivity is important, yes, but just as much as individual.
2. “Being an entrepreneur”: This has changed a lot, and yet wasn’t considered as pathetic two years ago. I don’t know what kinf of people you met that made you believe that, but it is not the case. My dad created is own enterprise two years ago and was admired for that. These days in France, it is great if you become an entrepreneur. On the contrary, after meeting a lot of young people here, I was amazed by the number of those who just hoped to work in the big law firm, or a big lab.
3. I kinda agree on that point. French industries are not enough open-minded and could use some of the innovation, newness and creativity Americans have. However, I disagree on your example of the green card. It is a real pain in the ass to get it, and even though you don’t have to speak english to obtain it, the process is so costful and long and full of paperwork that you are easily discouraged. It is not wrong to speak the language of the country you are going to leave in. I think Americans around would take it really wrong if I only spoke French. You’re not happy in your country and you go to live in another, the least you can do is learn their language! My husband got a temporary (12 months) carte de séjour, without any trouble, no cost, nothing !
Breaking the rules in the US is even worst than breaking them in France (don’t move when you got pulled over, or they’ll shoot you !) Moreover, I think, as someone wrote a year ago, that French people are speaking English and other languages way more than Americans. You speak English and you’re lost in France, they’ll help. Here? It’s a luck I speak English!
4. The French language is changing a lot. English words, new french words. Of course the majority of it stays the same, and it avoids losing your culture. I agree on the fact that some French are not tolerant, but again, it depends where in France! It can’t be a generality!
5. I don’t know if you’ve seen the news recently, but that part isn’t true! Just as for you, it is a necessary devil. And since a few years, we disagree with it. But hell, what can we do? Yes we strike, but it isn’t to put it back in line, it is to show we disagree with it. They do what the hell they want to do, it is not some fights in the streets that are going to make them change their mind (only a little revolution can ! ^^)
6. I didn’t know about the vote in the US. And I know that French people are voting less and less. We are getting tired of politics and their shit.
7. Some French are not like that. I’m one of them, my family is. I guess we’re weird. I yet agree that a lot of French will blame someone or something else for their failure. However, in those times of crisis, most of them are right^^
8. I agree… Maybe in 50 years it will be better !
9. Once again I agree. But hey! It’s French culture to be grumpy and unhappy about everything! It’s when we lose it that we realize it was damn good after all!
10. True! We don’t have that culture of sueing.
11. It depends. If you live in Paris, I agree. Parisians are awful for that, but not only towards foreigners, also and mostly for people from the countryside (which includes big cities, but hey, it’s Paris we’re talking about). But North of France, of South-west, people are not like that. Even when you go the basque country, and they all look like bears, after a few beers, they are charming.
Actually it is really bothering me the way Americans act the first time you meet them. They want to know everything and they’re telling you their life. Who cares ? My life is private, yours is too. Let’s get to know each other before sharing our pants.
12. I agree.
13. My parents in law have a giant house. Giant. A big boat. Big. Three big TVs. Three. Two big trucks. Big. And an enormous debt. ENORMOUS. Some people are like that in France, but we are way more aware of the money deal, and won’t spend it on buying a hundred things. And yes, even though sundays would be great to shop, it is a family day, perfect when you work from monday through Saturday!
14. Administration. French AND American. Trust me, for spending 5 months trying to get some paperwork done to get a visa, and it was awful. I think they’re equal for that!
15. True.
16. So wrong ! We are so ahead of you for that! Come on, some girls are still getting killed in the US because they want an abbortion. Yes, it is a little more difficult for a woman to be at the head of something, but we’re moving to that point. Concerning the financial aspects, social aids are here for women alone. Emotional abuse is now considered. As for the taxes I couldn’t say. COncerning the retirement benefit… I won’t debate on that. I will just say that it concerns men also, and that here, I met a woman, 51, 3 jobs, who will 600€ of retirement benefit (whaou !) if she works until 81. She’s been working her entire life.
17. I remember how my husband was shocked when he first saw an ad on the french tv! It was amusing! And then after a while, he told me that we were way less hypocrit than Americans concerning sex and body-image. We show it, we talk about it, it’s here. In the US, you talk about it, it’s everywhere, but you can’t show it in real.
18. True. But wrong about the “candidate’s lifestyle, sexual orientation, marriage status, morality, whether s/he ever had an affair, or which candidate you’d most like to have a beer with!”. For the past two presidential elections, those informations were more in the news than their actual program!
19. Very true, and that might be what I am the most proud of. Life is short. Killing yourself at work is a shame when you see what you could do. Not taking the time to live is a pity, so yes, we enjoy doing nothing. My husband actually adopted that pretty fast! And I believe the American work world is coming to this point too, obliging employees to go on vacations for their health !
20. True and wrong. Again, it depends which business, or which website…
21. Completely true and an example to follow. My husband learned with me the importance of saving money. His parents don’t do that and almost lost their house a dozen times.
22. I agree on that point.
23. True again. France is blocked and closed when it comes for jobs. It is related to the point #3. If only firms would open their mind, it would be better. It also a question of choices. I do know I want to live in France, and I do know I won’t have the same job my entire life, because I want to discover everything, and have opportunities. As for education vs experience, it is changing. Not a lot, just a little. But if you can prove them that even without the diploma you can be good, they start to recrute people like that. As for the age. I totally agree and it is sad, as those persons are way more experienced.Oh and teachers don’t retire early, unless they don’t want their full retirement benefit…. My parents are teachers, and would have worked until 62 if they didn’t retire 2 years ago. Now they got their own enterprise!
24. Everyone should take personal privacy very seriously! However, I think you don’t have the right purpose of shutters … (by the way, I hate not having any in the US!). They are here to close them at night so the bedroom can be dark … And yes, they help keeping the house cool during hot summers. But they are not for privacy, only when you are a weirdo! As for the sheers, my american neighbors here are a great example of keeping them closed all the time even though it’s their only window! In France, once again, they are mostly made to decorate, to close at night, or during day during hot summer to avoid mosquitos to come in. But maybe my family, friends and I are really bad examples? As for our personal lives, everyone should keep it into the family or friends. Societies are lacking some privacy and you’re blaming French for keeping it?
25. As a lot of people say, help yourself first before I help you! Seriously, I don’t know how much American are giving to charities compared to French, but yes, as we don’t have that religious way of thinking, it might be less. however, hundreds of volunteers are working to help people in charities, which, if you bring the number to the american population might be pretty much the same. Without associations and charities in France, a lot of persons wouldn’t be able to eat or live.
All that said, I like America, to a certain point. I couldn’t live here for ever for many reasons. I just miss the welcoming of south-west of France (which is the same as here), I miss great food, I miss human-sized cities and roads. As you say there is good and bad in each culture, but I wouldn’t be able to deal with the American one for too long. And it is not chauvinism… Because I could live in Ireland or Scotland without any problem!
Our different points of view might also come from our age difference. Which means we are not dealing with the same side of the societies.